TOWN on TOUR! Gainsborough Trinity

The last time I suggested a change of manager was needed I was almost laughed out of town! Certain posters who questioned my logic have since been very quiet of late though!

I barely see the point in debating the merits of appointing a new manager as we all know it won't happen - don't they say that its the hope that kills you?!!!

town supporter wrote:The last time I suggested a change of manager was needed I was almost laughed out of town!  Certain posters who questioned my logic have since been very quiet of late though!  

I barely see the point in debating the merits of appointing a new manager as we all know it won't happen - don't they say that its the hope that kills you?!!!

 I think if the chairman isn't putting his money where his mouth is then then it changes things significantly. It seemed to me that people were happy to go along with this little *ahem* "project" on the understanding that the chairman was bankrolling us substantially. If it really is the case that the club is being run more sustainably than we've been led to believe then we should have no fears in calling time on the manager should this cycle of failure continue.

It's pretty clear that there are only 2 sets of circumstances that will see us move up a level - 1) We bring in players so good that the manager cannot fail or 2) We bring in a manager with a proven track record of getting teams promoted.

As far as I'm concerned the bottom line is this - if the chairman insists on inflicting us with his son as manager no matter what the results are then he HAS to be putting in significant funds in to the club. Otherwise what is the bloody point? Why should he have control of our football club just so his son can manage a team?

If we really are sustainable then the time is soon coming to call these jokers out. The idea that we just keep doing what we're doing and things will turn around is the very definition of insanity.

Actually scratch all that. Let me try this from a different angle. If we continue to plod along as also rans in this divison, how long before Irving admits defeat? How long before Simon gets bored or has the good grace to fall on his sword? Because I'll be honest, he's only 35 and I'm genuinely worried we could still be here in 10-15 years having the same discussions.

"As far as I'm concerned the bottom line is this - if the chairman insists on inflicting us with his son as manager no matter what the results are then he HAS to be putting in significant funds in to the club. Otherwise what is the bloody point? Why should he have control of our football club just so his son can manage a team?"

Hmmmm....let's have a speculate on a reason...

Mr Weaver is a Property Developer, and a good one at that, with an acute business sense and an eye to the long term. It was once all green fields round here, but it didn't stay like that, and who wouldn't, given the opportunity, help out a son or daughter in the family business or entertainment?

Ask yourself why would a successful Property Developer take on Wetherby Road, and, despite all the results, continue to try to make it work, continue to act as though promotion is the goal, and all the time keeping a questionable manager on? I'm hoping that by now we all understand that the last part of that answers itself.

Seems to be the current opinion that if the season-on-season results and match-after-match-after-match poor performances with the accompanying follow-up sad excuses actually mattered to anyone up the ladder, the manager would have been changed.

As for the first parts, its a guess that any money spent, whether on on players, ground improvements, stands, community initiatives, sports psychologists, players hair gel/wax budgets or anything else you care to mention, over whatever time period you care to pick, is dwarfed by the value of the land to a Property Developer, if its latent value can be realised. That the Manager appears not to be Brian Clough or Bill Shankley is incidental.

Is Wetherby Road ground fit for a higher league? Seems not to be.

Is the Manager going to be sacked? Ha!

Does HTAFC still look to be aiming for promotion by biding time and keeping the club ticking over and getting lucky one year, when the Manager has players of a calibre such that his talents become immaterial? Seems likely on the current 4 year trend.

If promoted, would the Club owners be in a good position to lobby for a bigger ground  elsewhere (where houses never would be built)? Would seem so.

Would Wetherby Road then be free for building on? Maybe.

Anyone know a handy property developer? hang on.......

I tell you who I feel sorry for: The Manager. Talk about golden handcuffs. Surely, if he had any faith in his own managerial talent, he'd actually want to work elsewhere, and not be in the employment of his dad? It seems to be his job for as long as he wants it. If it wasn't, he'd be long gone by now. Would you want that kind of a life as a 35 year old? Feeling that you have to work for your dad because you're not sure you can cut it elsewhere doing your own thing with people who value your skills, for what you bring to the table? Manager lost the confidence or respect of the dressing room, of the people who look to you for leadership, inspiration and support? I should coco.

However, all that said, maybe I'm wrong, and the owner does care about the results, and does understand that a Football Club 'belongs', in the emotional sense of the word, to its town & its fans, and not to any transient owner, and should be run accordingly. The current situation looks a lot like unthinking nepotism. Grow a pair Mr Weaver, and cut your manager loose.

And on that note Developer, the forum all of a sudden breaks its ties with any association to Harrogate Town FC...........Do we still have to mind our P's and Q's?

I agree there is the rather terrifyng thought that in season 2020/21, it will be 'Our Season' (again!), we will all get excited about the new signings and the pre-season results, and after about 6 weeks it all goes belly up again. There will (of course) be a Q and A session, and we will be told that Tadcaster Albion (top of the league) are 'throwing money at it', and we will not be going down that path, thank you very much. Meanwhle North Ferriby will be 'holding their own' (so to speak) in League Two. Oh and we will, of course, continue to get drawn away in the FA Cup!

trevdee wrote:And on that note Developer, the forum all of a sudden breaks its ties with any association to Harrogate Town FC...........Do we still have to mind our P's and Q's?

The changes to the forum don’t surprise me as it was clear from the question and answer session that the club weren’t at all happy with some of the negative posts on the forum. An outsider looking in may almost have interpreted events as threats to kill and I couldn’t help sensing that the club was being far too sensitive. I approached Irving after the question and answer session and expressed my view that for some people, the forum was an extension for fans to attempt some form of post-match analysis just like they would do in the 1919 venue, the point being there was always likely to be negative posts and the club shouldn’t be so sensitive. Irving clearly didn’t agree with me, so it comes as no surprise that changes have been implemented. I understand that the moderator has since been instructed to adopt a much harder line with bad language, abusive posts, but I honestly don’t think there’s anyone on here who has a problem with that.

My take on it (and it’s only my view so please don’t get upset anyone) is that a certain person involved in running the club has been used to getting their own way for a large part of their working life (and indeed that single minded approach to work may well be the reason behind that person developing a highly successful and profitable business), but nevertheless a very different approach is required to running a football club. I think recent events regarding Charlie demonstrate that – dare I suggest if she had been employed in other lines of work she may not have received the level of support that she has done by supporters at Harrogate Town? Surely the forum played an important role in holding the club to account.

I really can’t see the point in having a forum which exists primarily for fans to share their views about how wonderful everything is, it makes for a dull read and it’s not a fair reflection of what a lot of fans really think. It’s sad that the club has taken its bat and ball home as I wonder whether its undone the good work of holding the question and answer session in the first place. Is the club actually saying, on reflection, we don’t really care what fans, particularly ones that post comments challenging team selection, etc, and so we’ll have nothing more to do with you from now on thank you very much?

I support the club in wanting to promote itself, make it attractive proposition to sponsors, etc, but lets not blind ourselves from the truth.

I also hope the likes of Ged and Peter are inclined to continue posting on here. It’s good to receive feedback from the club and clarify specific points raised by supporters. I added a post recently (information taken from a source who should know better may I add) which turned out to be inaccurate and I was happy to accept the club’s explanation and that I got it wrong. Likewise it would be helpful to have some clarification about Phil Lee’s role at the club.

So come on guys, cheer up!

Sorry, and another point, by forcing users to login to use the forum, is it not the club’s way of restricting people from finding out what’s really go on? Just as I was starting to accept the club’s approach to be open, honest and transparent and now this. I really don’t think the club does itself any favours a lot of the time. Is it just me or is it becoming a very difficult club to support right now?

It isn't just you TS, the club has been difficult to support for some time. I don't mind the likes of Ged coming on here and balancing the level of arguments.....Some of what is said is written on the spur of the moment after a bad/good experience and without much logical thought so a balance or counter argument is healthy.

If Irving loses touch with what is been said on the forum then i'm afraid he also loses touch with the whole Harrogate Town faithfull because we come on here and say what the majority think.

It is sad and it pains me to say it, but I think some serious cracks are starting to show around the club.......and it boils down to that slap dash approach I mentioned before news of Charlie came out - yes the one Ged was quick to quash! Too much emphasis in the wrong areas like pre-match prep, latest technology to study opposition, filling the players/supporters heads with propaganda etc........Start with the basics I would say.

Well one thing is absolutely certain, barring divine intervention or a miraculous turnaround, the team will be playing in front of crowds of just 2 or 3 hundred in a few weeks time.

**** it. **** the Weavers and if the moderator wants to ban me, just fucking do it. I may as well support Knaresborough or Railway. Who's joining me?

Dark Knight wrote:Well one thing is absolutely certain, barring divine intervention or a miraculous turnaround, the team will be playing in front of crowds of just 2 or 3 hundred in a few weeks time.

Bit optimistic there DK, someone once said a week is a long time in politics well the next nine days will seem like a lifetime on here

Really disappointed to see that the club has stopped casual viewers from just having a look, I know some other clubs do it, but that doesn't make it right, feels defensive and a bit paranoid.
Its odd because what seems to me remarkable about our regular posters are how intelligent, literate and articulate they are (have a look at some other forums for a contrast!). Most of our more 'juvenile' posters are gone. Pretty well everyone who posts regularly here gives reasons for their opinions (whether you agree or not), and I don't notice any personal abuse. In fact, even people who have 'problems' with our manager always say what a decent guy Simon is.
So come on. lighten up, I mean we havn't had any actual football (at the CNG) to talk about for weeks!

Comments taken on board.

Guests can now remain to view posts but will need to sign up as a member to comment on posts.

Cheers

Admin

Sure gonna be interesting to see the attendance a week on Tuesday, cold Tuesday night, probably football on the TV...hmm...300 will be optimistic, unless, of course, we have stuffed Boston on the Saturday. Er...

TheNeil29 wrote:**** it. **** the Weavers and if the moderator wants to ban me, just fucking do it. I may as well support Knaresborough or Railway. Who's joining me?

Don't give them the satisfaction Neil, I think their latest move indicates how desperate they've become.

town supporter wrote:

TheNeil29 wrote:**** it. **** the Weavers and if the moderator wants to ban me, just fucking do it. I may as well support Knaresborough or Railway. Who's joining me?

Don't give them the satisfaction Neil, I think their latest move indicates how desperate they've become.  

you think their desperate what about us?

Just out of interest, who is the Admin, and who are the moderators of this board?
"Admin" noted the comments regarding veiwing and posting, and can alter the permissions, but if: "This forum is not formally connected or associated with Harrogate Town AFC Limited" then who does run the board and make these decisions? Wouldnt be anyone with either a formal or informal role or at all associated with the club would it?
Anyone know who the Admin actually  is? Why would they feel it necessary to change the permissions for writing comments?

Not sure we really need to know who the moderator / admin person is. He or she does a good job so no arguments from me. At the fans forum question and answer session we were told it was moderated by someone independent to the club. Recent changes, I guess, were an instruction from the club, implemented by ‘admin’ but which I suppose does challenge the heading on the forum that its not formally connected to the club. When I’ve experienced a couple of issues with the site I’ve found ‘Admin’ very helpful.

Hi,

I can assure you I am in no way officially connected to the club. I am merely a supporter of Harrogate Town that set this forum up when the other forum went down temporally.

I was asked by the club to make it clear that this was not an official forum of the club which I have no done with the heading and the statement below it. The forum is not moderated by anybody at the club.

I was asked to think about the possibility of making the forum only available to view by registered members. Initially I thought this may be a good idea but after thinking about it and reading comments from posters on here I decided to leave it open to view for guests. I have kept it the same however where you must be a member to write posts. ( mainly to stop spam posts)

Hope this clears things up

Cheers

Thanks Admin. I've no truck with the changes, the less spam the better. It's a thankless task managing an internet forum, especially singlehandedly.

Making it clear that the forum is unofficial & not connected with or speaking for the club is understandable. After all, if it not hosted or endorsed by them, then it's a logical request.

I have to say I'm rather more interested in understanding the thinking behind a  request from the club to an independent forum Admin to consider making the posts viewable to registered users only: what benefit they would see in it, if it was acted on. That's kind of interesting... Well done for keeping the forum viewable to all, registered or not.

I'd be surprised if there are any further posts from "official club representatives" on this unofficial not-connected-with the-club forum. Let's see. Maybe they've decided to keep their official talking where it belongs...on the pitch with results?

Don'tr know if anyone on here gets or reads 'When Saturday Comes': about the only football mag worth reading in my view, but this current issue has two very interesting articles, relevant to recent debates on this forum. Harry Pearson on page 19 argues that moaning and complaining about your club is a perfectly 'normal' thing for real supporters to do (he tells a wonderful anecdote about a couple of Newcastle fans. One had just finished 6 months of treatment for cancer and was in remission, his mate says 'thats good news', and the other replies: Mind, Ive still got the agony of watching these bastards.')
The other is a interesting little article about the increasing tendancy of clubs to try and control negative press coverage, banning reporters etc. Have a lok, well worth reading. I'm not on commision by the way!