My take on the financial situation of the club if Irving leaves

Hi, I don't normally post on here and read everything you write.

I own a decent company and am a keen, and lifelong supporter. I run a business that will turnover £10mil+ this year, which is a fairly significant sized business and we make a bit of money. I would love to be more involved with the cub in the future. However I want to make it clear having looked at the financial costs of running a team, I believe (and have looked into) that a potential buyer would have to be worth in the £10s of millions and lose over £100k a year with the club in it's current form and standing.

Realistically, if the Weavers leave, I don't see many / any potential buyers. There is a good chance the club would have to fold, or go down to Evostik, at Railway level, for me to be able to run the club, and I would do what I could do to help. Look at the other examples of bigger clubs than ours with bigger fan bases, all going into administration...

I'm sorry, but as somebody with a bit money, who loves the club very much, I would warn against trying to end the regime for now, as it could lead to the significant demise of the football club in terms of league standing- some might be okay with that which is fine, but not for me. If I can't afford to run the club at this level as somebody with a bit of money, who loves the club, then I don't know many others who would, or could, step in. Obviously there is always a chance, but I personally wouldn't want to take that risk. There's also no guarantee that even if they did we'd get a great manager who could get us out of this league, which is incredibly competitive- look at Guiseley.

Personally I'd argue that we put up with what we have at the moment. Give me 5 years, and in the background, I'm trying to get to a point where I could run a, hopefully the club at near this level. But not now, and there's no guarantee I can get to this point into the future. Obviously I'm not the only person with some money out there, but having canvassed opinion around, I can't see it. If it happens, I really hope I'm wrong.

I'm not trying to scare, but want there to be an element of realism of what I believe would happen if Irving decides to not fund the club which he has personally invested nearly £1 mil of his money to date, from what I have worked out.

Yes Simon is his son, unfortunately, what other reason unless you are a fan would you back the club? It's never been commercially viable, is increasingly so due to off field commercial development, but still isn't.

I will be at Brackley, and hope to see some of you there, but appreciate the situation and some of the supporters positions and why they feel like they do. I really hope that the club and supporters can find a way to end the increasing division and tension as soon as possible as it doesn't help the club on the pitch, or supporters off it.

I'm not going to reply to any posts on here about any further Qs, or get involved further, but appreciate all that is written here and wanted to give you my opinion, for what it is worth.

If you want to talk about it I'm at a lot of games in the 'Kop of Fear', you will see me, come and talk to me.

I'm not a director of the club, or have any affiliation to the Weavers, I'm affiliated to is Harrogate Town and its survival and prosperity, hopefully on and off the pitch into the future.

Feel free to slag me off, or not as you choose.

Sorry,

James

Irving has invested a million pounds? Pass the glue when you're done with it!

When you delve into how Irving does business you'll read that it's often not his own personal money he invests either.

How did we get on before Irving by the way?

James, a lot of fans are truly fed up with the situation, and the Weavers aren't showing any sign of wanting or willing to listen to the fans views and opinions. The last time a fan offered an opinion, a very well respected fan who has travelled to a lot of games and has arranged away travel, he was personally insulted not only by the manager, but by a player also. Which the club have tried to sweep under the carpet. It's extremely unprofessional, an embarrassment and a joke. The club haven't even had the decency to apologize either. And that is just 1 sign of unprofessionalism.

I'd rather Irving pull his funding, he walks out, and we drop a few leagues and we start again. With a new, impartial chairman who isn't a nepotist.

I'm always up for a discussion, and it would be good to meet you and have a drink at the next home game. A lot of people know me, so I'm sure you would be pointed in my direction.

Best Regards,

Neil.

James/Bal wrote:Hi, I don't normally post on here and read everything you write.

I own a decent company and am a keen, and lifelong supporter. I run a business that will turnover £10mil+ this year, which is a fairly significant sized business and we make a bit of money. I would love to be more involved with the cub in the future. However I want to make it clear having looked at the financial costs of running a team, I believe (and have looked into) that a potential buyer would have to be worth in the £10s of millions and lose over £100k a year with the club in it's current form and standing.

Realistically, if the Weavers leave, I don't see many / any potential buyers. There is a good chance the club would have to fold, or go down to Evostik, at Railway level, for me to be able to run the club, and I would do what I could do to help. Look at the other examples of bigger clubs than ours with bigger fan bases, all going into administration...

I'm sorry, but as somebody with a bit money, who loves the club very much, I would warn against trying to end the regime for now, as it could lead to the significant demise of the football club in terms of league standing- some might be okay with that which is fine,  but not for me. If I can't afford to run the club at this level as somebody with a bit of money, who loves the club, then I don't know many others who would, or could, step in. Obviously there is always a chance, but I personally wouldn't want to take that risk. There's also no guarantee that even if they did we'd get a great manager who could get us out of this league, which is incredibly competitive- look at Guiseley.

Personally I'd argue that we put up with what we have at the moment. Give me 5 years, and in the background, I'm trying to get to a point where I could run a, hopefully the club at  near this level. But not now, and there's no guarantee I can get to this point into the future. Obviously I'm not the only person with some money out there, but having canvassed opinion around, I can't see it. If it happens, I really hope I'm wrong.

I'm not trying to scare, but want there to be an element of realism of what I believe would happen if Irving decides to not fund the club which he has personally invested nearly £1 mil of his money to date, from what I have worked out.  

Yes Simon is his son, unfortunately, what other reason unless you are a fan would you back the club? It's never been commercially viable, is increasingly so due to off field commercial development, but still isn't.

I will be at Brackley, and hope to see some of you there, but appreciate the situation and some of the supporters positions and why they feel like they do. I really hope that the club and supporters can find a way to end the increasing division and tension as soon as possible as it doesn't help the club on the pitch, or supporters off it.

I'm not going to reply to any posts on here about any further Qs, or get involved further, but appreciate all that is written here and wanted to give you my opinion, for what it is worth.

If you want to talk about it I'm at a lot of games in the 'Kop of Fear', you will see me, come and talk to me.

I'm not a director of the club, or have any affiliation to the Weavers, I'm affiliated to is Harrogate Town and its survival and prosperity, hopefully on and off the pitch into the future.

Feel free to slag me off, or not as you choose.

Sorry,

James

How did you arrive at those figures?

The figures will include his own personal outlay on players wages, which I assume is a gift aid declaration (avoid tax payments) and improving facilities off the pitch that he wouldn't have got funding for. Seems a fair figure over a 3 and a half yr period.

There is no way the club is making a profit. I'm confident that if I was ever in a position to carry out due diligence, James estimated loss figure i believe is optimistic and I do disagree on his assumption of the individual net worth to take over the club. But that's my take on it.

TheNeil29 wrote:The figures will include his own personal outlay on players wages, which I assume is a gift aid declaration (avoid tax payments) and improving facilities off the pitch that he wouldn't have got funding for. Seems a fair figure over a 3 and a half yr period.

There is no way the club is making a profit. I'm confident that if I was ever in a position to carry out due diligence, James estimated loss figure i believe is optimistic and I do disagree on his assumption of the individual net worth to take over the club. But that's my take on it.

Where would you place it?

Thanks for the post James -my personal view is that success shouldn't come at any price - I know this is Harrogate but this 'I'm alright jack' attitude,  ordinary joe can go **** himself cos I'm happy sat in the stand drinking my Yorkshire tea, really pisses me off. There are people involved, iindividuals who have done a great deal of good for the club,  much of the work going unnoticed,  too proud to speak out.   The ignorant individuals who sit in the stand turning a blind eye, the gravy train individuals in corporate hospitality, are of no interest to me. If success is all you're after go bugger off and join alan williams with his polo club.

some may say that it's mostly offset against Irving's strata dealings and tthat the club's accounts will never give a an accurate reflection of what iss realky happening. How much did irving exactly pay for the stand - think carefully now - you sure you know the answer?

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Strata Homes Ltd own Strata Plus Ltd
Strata plus Ltd own 75% of Harrogate Town AFC Ltd!
Irving also sponsors the club each season!

Even if you are not a shareholder you can still pay to see the accounts [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

These fan owned clubs seem to have more realistic supporters following them because they get to see the accounts & the reality of the costs involved!

So who owns the other 25 % then ? (just as a matter of interest)

Money isn't everything as the Weavers have proved. Let them go, HTFC will survive, it has done for 100 years. Lower league with a competent management team and a club worth supporting and players that aren't just in it for the money is far preferable to the current shambles. I have a feeling if nothing changes the club will implode at some point, no matter how much money the Weavers throw at their weekend hobby - all a big tax fiddle anyway.

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You got any money to invest in the club then nobby?

Big Lundy wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
You got any money to invest in the club then nobby?

Well there's a lot of people with a lot of money in Harrogate. The Weavers aren't the only show in town. We all invest every time we waste £12 on a Saturday.

Well we can only make assumptions, my personal assumption is that he paid sweet fa for the stand and sweet fa for the pitch from his own personal pocket. I also think his company chuck in a bundle of sponsorship to cover wages and other expenses for the year that would have otherwise gone to the tax man.

In the case of the stand someone probably scratched his back a little........can't really say anymore about what I think on that situation any more.

Ok some of you will be pleased to know this will be my last post until the Weavers are gone.

I think some of you are massively overestimating Irving's financial input. When you factor in money received from other investors, the TV money from ITV and BT Sport, the gate receipts from the big cup ties, Craig MacGillivray, the football trust and the undoubted use of clever accounting by Irving then his overrall investment is most likely a million miles away from the nonsense doing the rounds. Do people really think Irving got where he is today by giving away HIS money? Go and read about the guy, nepotism runs in the family so don't be so naive. Also isn't the reason expenditure is so high of late because of Simon's wastefulness? But even if you ignore all of that, what are we? Harrogate Town Football Club or Irving Weaver Football Club?!!!

With regards to the Q&A. I really don't see the point. They won't tell us anything we don't already know and they won't tell us the things we really want to know. It will be just another attempt to squash the dissenting voices, smooth things over and woo you back over to them. Some of you will fall for this (again) and some of you won't. But how many more of these are they going to do? Like locking the players in the changing rooms, there's only so many times this will work.

There's only one reason why Simon is a football manager and it has nothing to do with being there on his own merits. Think about that, the only way he could get a gig was because of Daddy's money. If the penny hasn't dropped about his lack of managerial ability by now then it never will. Keep clinging to the idea that one day he'll become one though because that's how football works isn't it? Cant get a football career, just buy one. Simple.

Harrogate Town Football Club or Irving Weaver Football Club. I guess it's up to you.

Dark Knight wrote:Ok some of you will be pleased to know this will be my last post until the Weavers are gone.

I think some of you are massively overestimating Irving's financial input. When you factor in money received from other investors, the TV money from ITV and BT Sport, the gate receipts from the big cup ties, Craig MacGillivray, the football trust and the undoubted use of clever accounting by Irving then his overrall investment is most likely a million miles away from the nonsense doing the rounds. Do people really think Irving got where he is today by giving away HIS money? Go and read about the guy, nepotism runs in the family so don't be so naive. Also isn't the reason expenditure is so high of late because of Simon's wastefulness? But even if you ignore all of that, what are we? Harrogate Town Football Club or Irving Weaver Football Club?!!!

With regards to the Q&A. I really don't see the point. They won't tell us anything we don't already know and they won't tell us the things we really want to know. It will be just another attempt to squash the dissenting voices, smooth things over and woo you back over to them. Some of you will fall for this (again) and some of you won't. But how many more of these are they going to do? Like locking the players in the changing rooms, there's only so many times this will work.

There's only one reason why Simon is a football manager and it has nothing to do with being there on his own merits. Think about that, the only way he could get a gig was because of Daddy's money. If the penny hasn't dropped about his lack of managerial ability by now then it never will. Keep clinging to the idea that one day he'll become one though because that's how football works isn't it? Cant get a football career, just buy one. Simple.

Harrogate Town Football Club or Irving Weaver Football Club. I guess it's up to you.

I would like to think I am not the only one who would say don't stop posting. If the south Yorkshire mafia had a choice on whether people like you carried on pilloring them I think they would rather you stopped. In a kate Bushtto Peter Gabriel style DON'T GIVE UP. :-)

Agree with carefree - don't stop posting!

Yeah, I enjoy your input as you say it how you see it. Don't stop posting.

Echo that, we need you DK! I know nothing about money (certainly big money), but I cannot believe that all 22 Conf North sides (plus 22 Conf South sides) are all owned by multi millionaires, and are all losing 100, 000 a year. And hasn't the Conference got new rules wherby clubs have to balance the books or something? I simply don't believe that we could not run a decent level club (perhaps at NPL Premier level...hardly a disaster!), with income from board sponsors, local firms, supporters etc. I don't doubt James/Bal's neutrality but its exactly what the Weavers want us to believe, that we cannot survive without them. Sorry, don't buy it.

Any readers from other clubs care to comment on this?