TOWN on TOUR! Vauxhall Motors

TOWN on TOUR!
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Vauxhall Motors (Away) The Skrill North Sat 28th Dec 2013 K.O. 3:00pm

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Predictions:
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Contacts/Directions:
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Where to eat & drink:
Social club at the ground or Astra pub adjacent club entrance!
Food at “The Chimneys Pub”
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Or in the ground!

Prices:
All £1
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History:
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Ground:
The Motassist Arena
Capacity 2,500 of which 350 are seated & 1,000 are covered
Record Attendance 1,500 v England XI Commemorative match to mark opening of Rivacre Park 1987
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Last competitive match @ Vauxhall Motors
27/04/13 Blue Square Bet North
Vauxhall Motors 0 TOWN 1 (Forrest)
Att 162

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Live match coverage:
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Travelling to this one! Cmon Town we need the win!

time to sign a striker, it is no good dominating games if we don't score.........think season is over now as far a playoffs and promotion.

We’ve been wetting the bed to much recently so Father Christmas decided we weren’t going to get any points for xmas!!!
  
And the “Village people” have had the hosepipes on to ensure their fresh for Wednesday!!!
 

trevdee wrote:time to sign a striker, it is no good dominating games if we don't score.........think season is over now as far a playoffs and promotion.

Hate to say it but "i told you so" but didn't Simon and a few others say they where ok with the strikers we had at the fans meeting? hmmm wonder what your thinking now?

trevdee wrote:time to sign a striker, it is no good dominating games if we don't score.........think season is over now as far a playoffs and promotion.

What's the point in signing a striker? Seriously?

We've had all of pre-season and half a season to find one or a partnership that works and no matter what we try these blanks keep happening. This despite being one of the top scorers in the division. The bottom line is we've juggled Tommy Wright, Chris Hall, Ashley Worsfold, Liam Hardy, Paul Beesley, Dayle Southwell, Craig Nelthorpe and Michael Woods (did I miss anyone?) we've tried one up front, two up front, false nine's, inside rights and inside lefts, front threes, brought players in, bombed players out...and we still don't have a clue who to play up there or which way to go about it. Of course we all have our own opinions and ideas about who should be playing up front and how they should be playing but they are not based on many facts or much evidence because we've never picked one or two together and stuck with it for a significant enough amount of time for an understanding to develop or for someone to really establish themselves.

If people haven't worked out what the common denominator is by now then they never will.

Chris Hall was the best player on the pitch today! Creating everything for other players! The players were too scar
ed to shoot most of the time! I found myself most the time shouting shoot!!! But...no! Next up Guiseley but they've had a rest today so its gonna be another hard game!

Dark Knight wrote:

trevdee wrote:time to sign a striker, it is no good dominating games if we don't score.........think season is over now as far a playoffs and promotion.

What's the point in signing a striker? Seriously?

We've had all of pre-season and half a season to find one or a partnership that works and no matter what we try these blanks keep happening. This despite being one of the top scorers in the division. The bottom line is we've juggled Tommy Wright, Chris Hall, Ashley Worsfold, Liam Hardy, Paul Beesley, Dayle Southwell, Craig Nelthorpe and Michael Woods (did I miss anyone?) we've tried one up front, two up front, false nine's, inside rights and inside lefts, front threes, brought players in, bombed players out...and we still don't have a clue who to play up there or which way to go about it. Of course we all have our own opinions and ideas about who should be playing up front and how they should be playing but they are not based on many facts or much evidence because we've never picked one or two together and stuck with it for a significant enough amount of time for an understanding to develop or for someone to really establish themselves.

If people haven't worked out what the common denominator is by now then they never will.

couldn't have put it better myself, but none of our strikers are world beaters, they have showed glimmers but just lack that extra needed to be top quality, hence why Simon is probably so confused about his starting striker. Mind you Simon has been confused about who to play in any position.....I'm not going to start picking pieces, or slating anyone here but basics have gone out of the window over the last couple of weeks and it is showing in the results....I nearly went today but my sons wanted me to stay at home to play with their new toys and I am actually glad I did..

Anyway I will be at Guiseley, lets hope for a quick bounce back...We are certainly capable of beating them.

For me Hall has to play every week up top and we either find him the right partner who can benefit from what he does or we find the right way of playing with him as the focal point of our attack. I was quite pleased when we brought him on against Guiseley because earlier in the season I was championing the idea of Woods playing off him. Unfortunately Woods didn't seem too interested on Boxing day and got hauled off shortly after.

Whatever we do, whether it's Hall and Woods or Hall and Hardy, I just think we have to stick with it for a decent run of games. 10 or more if that's what it takes. Then at least we can conclusively say whether or not it's the personnel that requires a change.

I know a few of you guys are big fans of Reeves but I just get the impression that if we signed him and he went one or two games without scoring and results weren't great, he too would find himself benched or out of it.

Hall maybe hasn't got the volume of goals we'd like but his performance levels are pretty consistent. And as we've all seemed to agree in the past, give him a partner and the opportunity to turn and face goal once in a while and he looks pretty dangerous.

Agree that we need to stick by the players for a run of games but equally if not more important stick with a system that suits the players we have and which they're happy playing. Always strikes me we make a very simple game appear extremely complex. Take Adam Nowakowski for example, not only will he be wwondering about whether he's starting the next game or not, he also has to concern himself with what position he's playing and under what system.

Same with Nelthorpe as well as Nowakowski.

TheNeil29 wrote:Same with Nelthorpe as well as Nowakowski.

I've said it before but what is Nelthorpe? He's not a striker, he's not a natural winger and he's not a midfielder. I'm not criticising the player by the way, he's got some admirable qualities but the management really need to define the roles of some of these players much better.

I do struggle to understand Simon...On one hand he speaks to Harrogate Advertiser stating that Woods needs a good run of games to progress and then on the next hand he is subbing him off and leaving him out of today's crucial clash....You are all right, he needs to sit down and say right that is my strongest 11 and that strongest 11 will work best under this system and then stick with it even if we get one bad result (fair enough if we lose 5 on the bounce then something needs changing) but with Simon if a player has a bad 20 mins he is left out of the next game......You don't need the best 11 individuals in this league, it is about having a well oiled machine and players that work hard for each other with each one knowing their role down to a tee, if a player gets drawn out of position then another player knows to slot in. It is the inconsistent selections and constant tinkering that will be our undoing this season, not the individual players. Too often you see players playing out of position, confused about their role on the pitch and because of that we let in sloppy goals to add some woeful shyness in front of goal. Also just a thought but the players only train once or twice max a week so surely if Simon wants to change tactics they don't get enough time to work on the shape...Full time clubs can do this because they are at it training 24/7...So in his mind he is over working absolute everything and forgetting the basic principles of winning a game - We score, the other team doesn't and we bag 3 points!

To all the Weaver lovers, this isn't a hate campaign, this isn't me saying get Simon out, this is me pointing out the facts of what is actually happening on a weekly basis....there is no other explanation.

trevdee wrote:I do struggle to understand Simon...On one hand he speaks to Harrogate Advertiser stating that Woods needs a good run of games to progress and then on the next hand he is subbing him off and leaving him out of today's crucial clash....You are all right, he needs to sit down and say right that is my strongest 11 and that strongest 11 will work best under this system and then stick with it even if we get one bad result (fair enough if we lose 5 on the bounce then something needs changing) but with Simon if a player has a bad 20 mins he is left out of the next game......You don't need the best 11 individuals in this league, it is about having a well oiled machine and players that work hard for each other with each one knowing their role down to a tee, if a player gets drawn out of position then another player knows to slot in. It is the inconsistent selections and constant tinkering that will be our undoing this season, not the individual players. Too often you see players playing out of position, confused about their role on the pitch and because of that we let in sloppy goals to add some woeful shyness in front of goal. Also just a thought but the players only train once or twice max a week so surely if Simon wants to change tactics they don't get enough time to work on the shape...Full time clubs can do this because they are at it training 24/7...So in his mind he is over working absolute everything and forgetting the basic principles of winning a game - We score, the other team doesn't and we bag 3 points!

To all the Weaver lovers, this isn't a hate campaign, this isn't me saying get Simon out, this is me pointing out the facts of what is actually happening on a weekly basis....there is no other explanation.

My understanding is that Woods had picked up a knock which is why he did not start rather than a tactical change.

Back when I played we put some deep heat on and played through the pain, especially with a game as crucial as today

Re: TOWN on TOUR! Vauxhall Motors
Post by trevdee Today at 8:05 pm
I do struggle to understand Simon...On one hand he speaks to Harrogate Advertiser stating that Woods needs a good run of games to progress and then on the next hand he is subbing him off and leaving him out of today's crucial clash....You are all right, he needs to sit down and say right that is my strongest 11 and that strongest 11 will work best under this system and then stick with it even if we get one bad result (fair enough if we lose 5 on the bounce then something needs changing) but with Simon if a player has a bad 20 mins he is left out of the next game......You don't need the best 11 individuals in this league, it is about having a well oiled machine and players that work hard for each other with each one knowing their role down to a tee, if a player gets drawn out of position then another player knows to slot in. It is the inconsistent selections and constant tinkering that will be our undoing this season, not the individual players. Too often you see players playing out of position, confused about their role on the pitch and because of that we let in sloppy goals to add some woeful shyness in front of goal. Also just a thought but the players only train once or twice max a week so surely if Simon wants to change tactics they don't get enough time to work on the shape...Full time clubs can do this because they are at it training 24/7...So in his mind he is over working absolute everything and forgetting the basic principles of winning a game - We score, the other team doesn't and we bag 3 points!

To all the Weaver lovers, this isn't a hate campaign, this isn't me saying get Simon out, this is me pointing out the facts of what is actually happening on a weekly basis....there is no other explanation.

I agree with the above post. Too many players used all the time-in and out of the side- in different positions- different formations-square pegs in round holes.
I have looked at this season and in 27 games we have used 26 players and that's not counting a few of them playing in multiple positions.
Season 10-11 39 players used
Season 11-12 35 players used
Season 12-13 30 players used (the most successful season under Simon)
Can't find any figures for 2009-10 but I wouldn't be surprised if this season alone wasn't close on 50 players used.
I think it speaks volumes that last season was by far the most successful of Simon's tenure as manager and he used the least players in a 54 game season??

In my opinion the number of changes to the team and the high turnover of the squad relates precisely to how much blame the manager apportions to the players when things go wrong.

Others have said it before but how often does he come out and take personal responsibility for failure or even strongly defend the players? It's clear in some of the interviews this season who he feels should carry the can.

The problem for Simon is he doesn't know our best XI (and let's face it, who does?) and at this stage of the season that's just wrong and entirely his own fault.

look at the top scorers and look the position of the teams they play for, do you get it?

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rangerider wrote:look at the top scorers and look the position of the teams they play for, do you get it?

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I'm pretty sure Simon could have most of those missing sitters and benched within 6 weeks at Town!

I take your point though RR. A goal machine is what we need and is probably the only thing we really lack. No doubt we'd be up there with one. After the departures this season, we surely have the budget, right?

There is the striker thing but I actually think the guys at the back have been guilty for letting sloppy goals past them too...or is that the midfield allowing opposition to threaten too much....But I think bringing in Franks and letting what u call him go to Darlington was probably his biggest mistake...In parts of last season we looked solid in defense, this season we look like conceding every 5 minutes.....Perhaps this boils down to what I said earlier about playing as a unit.

Also I have noticed in pre-season he doesn't seem to target players in certain positions but rather just brings anyone in who has some kind of footballing history and then worries about the balance of the team mid way through the season. When this season closes he needs to think hard about how he wants his team to play and what players to bring in to play this way successfully, perhaps even look at the player in flesh rather than on youtube.

I fully agree with the need to play a consistent formation and starting 11. The psychology of a top team should be "win this 3/4 nil playing your own style of football" not "keep it tight for 80 mins and score a lucky goal on the break" If you are one of the top teams in the league (which I believe we are) then you should always play the football that suits your game and dictate the game for 90 minutes.

Therefore, IMHO when fit we should always play our 3 top scorers Woods/Hardy/Worsfold in a 4-2-3-1 formation. But and its a big but, injuries play a massive part in our ability to play the desired 11. I was critical of Worsfold being taken off on Boxing day but that was obviously due to injury. It also looks like Woodsy has picked up a knock and Hardy seems to struggle with niggles. Add to the the problems we've had with the back 4 and its going to be an uphill task.

The answer I don't honestly know but I guess this is one of the issues faced with being a part time club with limited time to rectify these injuries.

As a side note, of the 32 points we have gained this season 18 of those points have been 'won' by Woods and Worsfold. Yes its a team game but the important goals that clinched the points and didn't just add to our goal difference or give us a consolation goal were scored by the 2 players mentioned. Make of that what you will........

I spoke to a friend yesterday who has been watching non-league football for over 30 years, and he watched yesterday at Vauxhall and said we were 1 of the best non-league teams he had seen play there.

For me, the solution is quite simple. Play 4-2-3-1. Play the same 11 (injuries and fitness barring of course) in their preferred positions and we will get results. Because the playoffs and promotion are an unrealistic target now. Its time for Simon to try something new now.

For the resources we have, the facilities we have, the quality of players we have, to me, the current predicament is unacceptable.

Sign a top notch striker, and a good Central defender and we are there.

With regards to players, utilise Nelthorpe anywhere on the left hand side, nowhere else. Revert Adam N to CB as his height and ability would be a very good asset in that position and move Franks to RB, as I believe this position is more natural to him.

It will also be interesting to see who Simon keeps, because I get the distinct impression there will be quite an exodus, led by Woods, Bolder and McGillivray.

A good summary, Neil. I do find it slightly depressing though that we're all fairly accepting of the current management setup. There's been some really good suggestions on here, but even if implemented I wonder what good they'd do. I know I'll get beaten up for this but my view has never really changed - Simon isn't up to managing this wonderful club of ours. The problem is, we're resigned to him staying for a while longer so we look for other solutions instead.

And TS I share the same mindset............The only saving grace is what Irving is doing behind the scenes.

I would rather be in our situation than follow a club who can only attract 270 fans even with a £1 entry....So the plus points for me are the fact that we are developing the ground, 1500 people of Harrogate have some kind of appetite to come and see Harrogate Town FC and I guess at some point Simon has to take us forward, to springboard his own career......Even though it may take him 10 years to do so after the penny finally drops. I find that if I dwell too much on Simon it kind of ruins my Saturday afternoon experience, so now I just go with an open mind and enjoy the game in front of me.

This is a good summary by trevdee, kind of echoes my views. I think the 'behind the scenes' changes at the club are fantastic (as is the focus on youth teams, community work etc.). We all know 'the price' we are paying for that, and indeed there are signs that that too might be working out eventually: then we go on another losing run and all the old doubts (rightly or wrongly) re-emerge. Frustrating as hell, but nothing we can do about it. I'm accused (quite fairly) of being inconsistent in my views, but thats because I find my opinions about these 'matters' changes every two or three weeks! TS is consistent in his views, which I respect.

I desperately want Simon to succeed, because a) he seems like a genuinely nice guy and 2) a successful manager means a successful Harrogate Town. The fact is a team of this quality should be doing better. Losing these l;ast 3 games (albeit we did not deserve to lose against Guiseley), has been a real body blow, because I really believed that we finally THERE: winning games, scoring goals, playing attractive football, building the crowds. All makes the last 3 results (and performances against Worcester and VM) harder to take. 'Its the hope that kills you' as someone once said.

Incidentally (on a more cheerful note), because lots of our rivals appear to messing up as well, we are still not COMPLETELY out of the play off race: but we need to beat Guiseley away and Telford at home to re-join the fray.

And yes, we Do need a quality striker