Win, Lose or Draw Today! Q&A follows on Wednesday

trevdee wrote: but if you look at any forum of any football club then Harrogate Town is no different, some anti management, some pro, some positive, some negative so I find it really bizarre that they take offence so easy (inc some players, some other management).

Probably because sometimes the truth hurts as they say and perhaps one or two on here hit a nerve from time to time.

Dark Knight wrote:OK that's fair enough Ged.

I think what I'm finding so hard to come to terms with on here is the general lack of ownership felt or hungered for by the some of the supporters. It's THEIR club too. They seem very happy to just go along with whatever they're told. I know some of the questions I've asked might seem hard to stomach for some people but I would have thought that some of them are questions EVERY supporter would want to know. Of course I wouldn't really expect for one minute that Irving would tell us how much of his own money he has invested into the club but these are important things, particularly when his son is the manager of the team. Even the most ardent and loyal supporter of the Weavers would surely have to concede that the town football club has essentially become a wealthy man's play thing for his son, or at least that's how it looks. And it's clear from some of the feedback, particularly the younger, more naive supporters (as well as some old enough to know better) that actually it doesn't seem to bother them and as long as Irving keeps ploughing his money into the club, that gives him carte blanche to do whatever. Well I'm sorry but that to me is selling your soul to the devil. There has to be limits. Anyone who thinks a policy of "I'm bankrolling the team and my son will be manager no matter what" is a good one is either insane or going along with it because they fear the consequences of Irving pulling the plug on it. You just can't live like that. We cannot be beholden to one man and his money. Also, if those really are the conditions of the chairman then surely there has to be some disclosure of what precisely he is putting in. I don't think we should just be forced to accept a regime like that and then have the shutters put up when we ask one or two pertinent questions. It's a totally unhealthy and extremely impractical, if not unworkable situation. He seemed to hint at this himself when he first came in and declared he was "not entirely comfortable" with it, yet it seems to me he is very comfortable with it, until things go badly, then he doesn't like the flak that comes with it.

I'm sorry I'm not one of those happy clapping fans who merrily goes along with everything without a care in the world and if that makes me fragile and insincere then so be it but all we ever seem to get is "trust us lads", "get behind us lads", "ooh you should have seen how bad things were before lads" etc etc. I don't think it's unreasonable for the supporters to want to know some of the finer details. Without supporters there is no football club and that seems to have been forgotten.

So your going to the meeting to put your point across?

rangerider wrote:
So your going to the meeting to put your point across?

If I was going I certainly wouldn't announce it on here but to be honest I seem to be in a small minority. Everyone else seems to think that just clapping their hands together, shouting "come on Town" and sticking with it will see us become a decent club in the conference in the not too distant future so I might as well just stay here sat on my hands for a few years...

DK or TS are either of you part of the supporters club (which is there to improve the communication of the club and make it better for fans?)

I personally dont know either of you (i dont think ) and i am pleased to say i have spoken to the majority of the members on this forum in person and they really are all a cracking lot who want to make Harrogate town a better club. Instead to me at least, you seem both to be content to sit behind your computers completely anonymously criticizing the club....

if anyone wants to have a debate with me over why weaver "needs to go" or whatever you can catch me at the next home game as I cant make this meeting for the same reason i couldn't join the supporters board at the start of this year (School) but i will be there on saterday supporting the lads! so hopefully everyone going can get there questions answered tommorow night

But for me personally im board of arguments and anger as i am content with the club how it is(if we stop playing long ball)

nz, I met you at a few times at supporters club meetings and as a younger fan you came out with a lot of sense, I told you that. I don't think I know DK but I do know TS and so would you who is a top man. passionate and knowledgeable fella. use the forum to put across your good, fresh ideas and just keep up your support and passion mate.

Dark Knight wrote:

rangerider wrote:
So your going to the meeting to put your point across?

If I was going I certainly wouldn't announce it on here but to be honest I seem to be in a small minority. Everyone else seems to think that just clapping their hands together, shouting "come on Town" and sticking with it will see us become a decent club in the conference in the not too distant future so I might as well just stay here sat on my hands for a few years...

so i take that as a no then

nztownfan wrote:Instead to me at least, you seem both to be content to sit behind your computers completely anonymously criticizing the club....

I'm going to say this one last time for the benefit of everybody...I have been very positive since joining this forum more positive in fact than some of the people who have criticised me. The evidence is there for all to see in black and white.

The events of the last few weeks are fully deserved of criticism. If they're not then why have the club issued several statements and organised a Q&A?

Anonymous? This is a football forum. Hardly anyone uses their real name on here, including yourself. So please don't level that as a criticism against me. I see that these "anonymous" criticisms annoy Mr Weaver. Why does he need to know anyone's identity? What is he going to do? Pay someone to have me rubbed? It's far better for people to be able to fully speak their mind than hold back their true feelings because they might get some numpty coming up to them in the ground giving them a load of abuse.

It's a bit ironic because you're also a Sunderland fan and I believe it was the north east clubs who actually invented the chant "Sack the board"!

Who was the worst manager Sunderland have had in recent times? Actually that's a tough question I know, there's a long list but bear with me. Let's imagine for a minute that Mick McCarthy or Steve Bruce were back in charge at the stadium of light and let's imagine they were put in charge because their dad was a Russian oligarch who had bought Sunderland. How would you feel about that? How would you feel if for the 4 years of this set up the results had largely been poor despite player after player coming through the door? Would you be looking to the future with high hopes and big expectations? I doubt it. You'd be thinking "what a waste of time, this is never going to work".

Go back through this forum. Some of these arguments have been rumbling on for the whole time. As things stand last season looks like an exception to the rule, not progress. And even though last season was better there was still an overall feeling of failure about it. Even in the FA Cup, which seemed like an exciting adventure at the time, ended unceremoniously. When the dust settled, in the cold light of day, losing to the lowest ranked team when we had 2 bites of the cherry at it simply highlights the failure that is embedded into the DNA here. Let's face it, when we got knocked out it wasn't a feeling of "unlucky that" everybody was thinking "bloody typical really".

People are still positive I believe because they see we have good players and they are right but they are kidding themselves if they think we'll turn a corner and suddenly come storming back to the top. Sure we might have a mini revival, string some wins together but the next set of crappy results will be lurking just around the corner. How do I know because all the evidence of the last 4 years points to it. With all the best will in the world, money and signing players will only get you so far. We lack expertise in the most important area.

I don't believe the current set up can ever work. Irving himself hinted that it's an awkward arrangement when he moved in. It's common sense really but they went with it anyway. After 4 years you'd think they might have a few doubts of their own but clearly they don't. In a way I admire their stubborn resolve but I hope to God we don't have another 4 years of the same before somebody says enough is enough.

Anyway I've exhausted everything I have to say on the subject really. I won't be adding anything else you'll be pleased to hear. I'll just sit back and see how this little project pans out.

Now you don't have to agree with what I say, you don't have to like what I say, hell you don't even have to respect what I say. Trash it for all I care but you're not going to change my mind. Don't get upset, don't take it personally, that includes you Mr Chairman. It's just a football forum on the internet at the end of the day.

rangerider wrote:
so i take that as a no then

To tell you the truth there's this new series on telly called The David Moyes Show and I don't want to miss the latest episode. It's been terrific so far!  

Martin L wrote:nz, I met you at a few times at supporters club meetings and as a younger fan you came out with a lot of sense, I told you that. I don't think I know DK but I do know TS and so would you who is a top man. passionate and knowledgeable fella. use the forum to put across your good, fresh ideas and just keep up your support and passion mate.

Cheers, Martin - see you this evening

nztownfan wrote:DK or TS are either of you part of the supporters club (which is there to improve the communication of the club and make it better for fans?)

I personally dont know either of you (i dont think ) and i am pleased to say i have spoken to the majority of the members on this forum in person and they really are all a cracking lot who want to make Harrogate town a better club. Instead to me at least, you seem both to be content to sit behind your computers completely anonymously criticizing the club....

if anyone wants to have a debate with me over why weaver "needs to go" or whatever you can catch me at the next home game as I cant make this meeting for the same reason i couldn't join the supporters board at the start of this year (School) but i will be there on saterday supporting the lads! so hopefully everyone going can get there questions answered tommorow night

But for me personally im board of arguments and anger as i am content with the club how it is(if we stop playing long ball)

nztownfan, I've supported the club for 25 years and I want the very best for it. Sometimes that involves saying things that the majority of fans on here don't like but nevertheless they are my views. Plenty of people on here know who I am and any who I haven't met will get a chance this evening. Please don't attempt to undermine my passion for the club though - I undertook my work experience roughly 17 years ago at the club - my friends laughed and joked at my expense but even then I couldn't care less. I met the legendary alf dunnington and phil atha - worked my socks off painting, and tidying up the ground. This was at a time when due to budgetary constraints the club did well to achieve a mid table finish in unibond division 1.

My passion for the club was such that for my 10th birthday party my parents arranged for my favourite player, Jimmy Wright to referee my football party. Ive attended numerous away games over the years even treating my good wife to a romantic weekend in Stafford just so I could watch town in the play offs! I've shared banter with the players, wound up john Reed, and confronted our current manager when not happy with a performance. These days due to personal circumstances I don't see as many games as I would like but when I do attend rest assured I make myself heard.

I choose not to join the supporters club as my belief is that a supporters club operates best when run independently of the club. That's my choice and I'm sure many will disagree with that.

Finally, if dark knight chooses not to attend this evening then that's up to him. Personally I think its a shame as he makes some valid points although I can already detect his patience starting to wear thin by some of the responses he's received.

At the end of the day if the people at the club were real winners and had a clue, they wouldn't get wound up by what a few people say on the internet. You'd think they would be bigger than that and it should be water off a duck's back to them. The fact that it isn't suggests that a few people have hit a nerve. And even if they can't help being upset by it, at the very most they should use the criticism as motivation to do better. If I were the manager or a player and I read some of the stuff on here, I wouldn't cry about it or say it's not fair, I'd think "I'll show them" and do my talking on the pitch. That we've come to this instead speaks volumes.

town supporter wrote:
I choose not to join the supporters club as my belief is that a supporters club operates best when run independently of the club. That's my choice and I'm sure many will disagree with that.

Been thinking for a while it would be better if the supporters club was independent.

town supporter wrote:Finally,  if dark knight chooses not to attend this evening then that's up to him. Personally I think its a shame as he makes some valid points although I can already detect his patience starting to wear thin by some of the responses he's received.

I genuinely think it would actually be better if those of us, who it would seem are in a minority, don't go. I don't envy anyone who goes against the grain trying to get their point across tonight. Personally I think it's a trap.

How did it go last night?

TheNeil29 wrote:How did it go last night?

While I am not the best person to give you a judgement, all I will say is that, as a management team, our objectives were twofold:

1. To apologise unreservedly for 2 errors of judgement.
2. Create an open and honest atmosphere where supporters felt comfortable about asking tough questions and receiving, where possible, full answers.

There were no traps, no fawning happy clappy fans, tough questions were asked and answered, and I hope the clear point was made that the management team have no issue with fans expressing a critical point of view or indeed asking tough questions.

2 points I would make though:

1. Foul and abusive language on the forum (ie. use of the f,c or b word even when written as fxxk) will not be tolerated from hereon in on a forum that is headed Harrogate Town FC Forum - it reflects badly on the Club, is hard to justify to parents whose children visit the forum and, in the opinion of the Directors, is out of order. The independent moderator will be informed of this with immediate effect.

2. The 10 questions raised on the Forum, were all to a greater or lesser extent, asked and answered, and I can confirm that the Chairman doesn't believe himself to be a fascist - to be fair to most fascists, they haven't historically held open Q&A sessions to handle tough questions and dissenting voices!

We will look to run a similar event in the New Year.

Thanks to everyone who turned up, young and old, male and female - approximately 40 in total! Thanks to Hamil for setting everything up and running the bar in his own time.

And finally, one of the few positive things to come out of this episode - the whole thing made me personally look at the way things were 3 years ago when my son was involved, compare where Town are today, and to recognise the contribution made by an enormous number of people who make their contribution on a voluntary basis - I drove Johnie Walker home and he gave me a brief Town history lesson stretching back over 50 years and suggested things weren't in too bad a shape at the moment.

That will do for me.

Ged

Wasn't able to make it last night after all, thanks to Ged for the response, but I'd like to know (in summary) what were the questions asked and what sort of answers did we get. And the two errors of judgement were?