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    Hyde United wound up

    paulstreet
    paulstreet

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    Hyde United wound up Empty Hyde United wound up

    Post by paulstreet on Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:37 pm

    Just been on the Farsley website and they are reporting that Hyde United were officially wound up yesterday. Very sad. Another Lazarus like come back I wonder?
    yorkbrian
    yorkbrian

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    Post by yorkbrian on Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:04 pm

    paulstreet wrote:Just been on the Farsley website and they are reporting that Hyde United were officially wound up yesterday. Very sad. Another Lazarus like come back I wonder?

    Confirmed here

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    Geoff

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    Post by Geoff on Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:22 pm

    Another 3 points down the drain ... but one less side relegated?
    Big Red Machine
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    Post by Big Red Machine on Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:09 pm

    Another sad day as one goes under. Will it ever stop!
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    TheNeil29

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    Post by TheNeil29 on Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:31 pm

    I think it will, when the FA get their house in order. They need to appoint a person to look after the best interests of non- league football, from BSP down. And recently they have allocated £1m, but more needs to be allocated in order to give the clubs a fighting chance.

    On the other note, do we know how Hyde got into the situation where they have been wound up?
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    sagalout

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    Post by sagalout on Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:46 pm

    Reading the original story, the same way as most businesses - not paying HMRC!
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    TheNeil29

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    Post by TheNeil29 on Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:50 pm

    Unbeliveable, it just enforces my thoughts on what the FA need to do in my previous comments.
    yorkbrian
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    Post by yorkbrian on Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:05 pm

    TheNeil29 wrote:Unbeliveable, it just enforces my thoughts on what the FA need to do in my previous comments.

    Agreed.

    The real problem is that because HMRC do not force the payment of PAYE taxes at the time they are due, it is far too easy to use that money to pay for other things - in football clubs' case it is players inflated wages as they chase dreams. After a year or two the HMRC use the route available to them of winding companies up that owe large amounts and that is what has happened recently. The clubs do have a choice to go into voluntary receivership (which is what the HMRC wants as it means the reciever has a duty to generate funds from any source to pay creditors) but Hyde seem to have avoided this route for some reason.

    To their credit the Conference have tried to do something about it (Northwich, Farsley, Altrincham and Chester) have all been punished severley by the Conference only for the FA to get involved and let the guilty get off.
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    TheNeil29

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    Post by TheNeil29 on Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:18 pm

    I think the HMRC need to review their rules and guidelines on the Tax issue, and the FA should really appoint a 'troubleshooting team' for clubs of the BSP and lower leagues.

    Only then, will the real issues at grass roots level will be addressed. But as I do not work for the FA, I may be a little opinionated.

    I really like your views and opinions, as you really seem to know about the more intricate policies. Maybe the club should take you on board as an advisor, as you really know your stuff.
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    sagalout

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    Post by sagalout on Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:10 pm

    The rules are fairly straight forward. Club pays players, deducts PAYE and NI, pays this, plus clubs 10% contribution to HMRC every month. You just have to be disciplined to follow them.

    These clubs are all run by responsible adults though - it really shouldn't need a further level of administration/policing. I run my own business and have to set aside PAYE and VAT every month, as every business does. As Brian says, HMRC are fairly lax about demanding it to start with, although they do send reminder letters. They would look on it as being helpful to businesses who are sufferring cashflow issues so you cant have it both ways.

    It just demands discipline from the Clubs not to spend money that isnt actually theirs. This is one thing that Town do (at least by the sounds of it) very well.
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    TheNeil29

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    Post by TheNeil29 on Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:56 pm

    Well, thank you for explaining that and making it clear, I wasnt aware that clubs paid a 10% to HMRC on top of the PAYE and Tax contributions from players.

    I do believe if it carries on and clubs keep going under, because Hyde wont be the last team that this will happen to, that the FA will have to step in and either appoint someone to deal with this issue. They think that by giving £1m, that they are saviours, when in truth, it needs to be more.

    On the other point, the HMRC will have to stop being so 'lax' as it is mentioned, and review their rulings and guidelines.

    I am not aware of Harrogate Towns' financial dealings, but I would assume that they work within their means, and the Chairman seems to run the club well enough.
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    sagalout

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    Post by sagalout on Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:15 pm

    The 10% thing is just how NI works for all businesses.

    Eg. I pay someone a salary of £30k

    On payday I pay them £2500 for the month, but they have to pay their tax (£392.08) and NI (£222.57). On top of that I, as the employer, have to contribute a further 10% (£250), so thats £864.65 I have to pay HMRC, and the employee gets £1,885.35. ie it costs me £33k to pay someone £30k. And thats just one employee.

    Mutiply that by a squad, and you can see that its a lot of money very quickly. If you're disciplined and organised you just pay the bill immediately, or at least put the money aside, but if you just leave it to build up a few months and use that money to just firefight, you quickly get into a spirallying mess thats hard to get out of. HMRC are actually pretty good in giving you time to pay, but the flip side is they DO want paying and CAN shut you down. None of thats specific to football though, its the same for every business.
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    TheNeil29

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    Post by TheNeil29 on Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:15 pm

    You think that Club chairmen would actually realise that this will happen and either set it aside, or pay the bill as you suggested.

    It dissapoints me that we onviously have Club Chairmen who let that happen to clubs...ie. Hyde.

    I hope it never happens to Harrogate Town.
    yorkbrian
    yorkbrian

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    Post by yorkbrian on Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:08 pm

    sagalout wrote:The 10% thing is just how NI works for all businesses.

    Eg. I pay someone a salary of £30k

    On payday I pay them £2500 for the month, but they have to pay their tax (£392.08) and NI (£222.57). On top of that I, as the employer, have to contribute a further 10% (£250), so thats £864.65 I have to pay HMRC, and the employee gets £1,885.35. ie it costs me £33k to pay someone £30k. And thats just one employee.

    Mutiply that by a squad, and you can see that its a lot of money very quickly. If you're disciplined and organised you just pay the bill immediately, or at least put the money aside, but if you just leave it to build up a few months and use that money to just firefight, you quickly get into a spirallying mess thats hard to get out of. HMRC are actually pretty good in giving you time to pay, but the flip side is they DO want paying and CAN shut you down. None of thats specific to football though, its the same for every business.

    We are in the same boat Sag Smile

    It is simply discipline and a sense of correctness. How is it so many people running football clubs do not seem to have it?

    I run a company that handles small companies' tax affairs and it is a widespread thing that people spend money that is owed to the HMRC. Football just seem to do it on a vast scale and then blame everyone else for their ineptitude.

    Neil, I think it wont happen at Harrogate as the position we find ourselves in this season is because the board stopped short of spending money it did not have.

    More news from Hyde here [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
    yorkbrian
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    Post by yorkbrian on Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:20 pm

    TheNeil29 wrote:

    I really like your views and opinions, as you really seem to know about the more intricate policies. Maybe the club should take you on board as an advisor, as you really know your stuff.

    Why thanks Neil.

    I have actually been there before and been involved in a club, but you need a VERY thick skin to do that job.

    I am more than happy to pay my money, relax at the sport I love and watch others take the flack.
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    TheNeil29

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    Post by TheNeil29 on Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:19 pm

    Well, the last 2 results have not been enjoyable, and they need to sort it out, from top to bottom, or this season is going to be a disaster.

    I will be making my views pretty clear verbally at the next game, and I wasnt at the BPA game, but my friends supports BPA, and he text me saying that Town were shocking.

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